tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7610014.post114484800434101250..comments2024-01-31T17:51:12.213-05:00Comments on Swing and a Miss: All-Departed TeamTom Goodmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00816668232837298444noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7610014.post-1144949971476023402006-04-13T13:39:00.000-04:002006-04-13T13:39:00.000-04:00Great comments all and very persuasive. I think t...Great comments all and very persuasive. I think the key to my post was to read it in the context of the Hagen articles. If one reads those articles it is clear a lot of mistakes have been made and many of the same people are still in place to make them, Gillick being the major exception.<BR/><BR/>George: As I have said many times in the past, the debt (1980)to Dallas Green has been paid in full for many years now and his poisonous presence is no longer required.Tom Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00816668232837298444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7610014.post-1144949280740751722006-04-13T13:28:00.000-04:002006-04-13T13:28:00.000-04:00I think the term "shit happens" applies here. I m...I think the term "shit happens" applies here. <BR/><BR/>I mean, the Red Sox are no stranger to losing big time players. They traded Nomar Garciaparra in 2004 and won the World Series. At the time, no one could have seen that coming. And that is an organization that in recent years before that lost Roger Clemens and Mo Vaughn. Granted both Vaughn and Nomar were never the same after they left, but at the time it was significant. And, they lost both Clemens and Vaughn to free agency and got nothing. I lived in Boston at the time, and that was discussed to no end. <BR/><BR/>Trading Schilling and Rolen came back to haunt us, but at least there were players in the deals. <BR/><BR/>The Phillies are far from unique. But it seems that what works out in the end for one organization does not work out for another.The Revhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04573551553863558468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7610014.post-1144946915244801782006-04-13T12:48:00.000-04:002006-04-13T12:48:00.000-04:00Well, you can do a simple experiment: look at all ...Well, you can do a simple experiment: look at all the leaders in the league, and look at the all-star team, and look at the roster of the WS champions and see how many of them are with their original team. If they aren't then they came from other teams that did the same things the Phillies did: let players go that ended up as valuable players elsewhere. You can always make up lists like that. Every trade is a risk.<BR/><BR/>As for the former Phillies listed, both Schilling and Rolen wanted out. The Phillies did not want to lose them, but had no choice but to trade them for whatever they could get.<BR/> <BR/>As you mentioned, Wagner was all about the $$ right from the start. I think the Phillies knew that, but couldn't afford to deal him last season in the thick of a pennant race.<BR/> <BR/>The Thome situation was debated for a long time, and the general consensus was to keep Howard and move Thome. This was one of the classic situations where you might be better off short-term keeping Thome, but long term Howard is your man. Had the Phillies dealt Howard instead, they would be receiving the same criticism a year or two from now, when hindsight will once again make the right move seem obvious.<BR/><BR/>Although not traded directly, I think Delucci is better than Michaels overall. You also have to consider that players like Michaels (and Thome) have more value in the AL. Michaels will get more ABs in the AL and have better stats. He will look better than how he might look if he stayed here.<BR/><BR/>The Polanco trade was a double mistake, plain and simple. First, he should have been the starting 3B, but somehow 'lost out' to David Bell??? Incredible. Secondly, the Urbina rental was more a trade made to keep him from other teams, always the wrong reason to make a trade in my view.<BR/><BR/>Then there's Padilla, and I think they got rid of him more out of frustration than anything else. I can't fault the organization for trading him when 'potential' remained 'potential' year after year. They absolutely should have gotten more for him, however.<BR/> <BR/>What I can fault the Phillies for is the terrible handling of Padilla (and pitchers in general). Kerrigan gets a lot of the blame usually, but I would really like to see someone give Dallas Green a one-way ticket out of town also. I just get the feeling that he labels players early on, accurately or not, and they carry that label around with them as long as they remain in the Phillies organization. That effects reputation, pace of advancement through the minors, playing time and decisions about keeping or letting go of players. I do not think other members of management have had the cajones to tell Green he's flatout wrong most of the time, or they somehow feel he is more astute than they are and follow his advice. Hopefully Gillick will judge players for himself no matter what Green thinks of them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7610014.post-1144858666810664982006-04-12T12:17:00.000-04:002006-04-12T12:17:00.000-04:00"Regardless of his extra-curricular activities, wa..."Regardless of his extra-curricular activities, was Michaels a better fourth outfielder to have then, say, David Dellucci or Shane Victorino? Yes."<BR/><BR/>You can't say for sure at this point, but the trade did yield Arthur Rhodes, who is going to play an important role on this team.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com